www.swedauk.org

Hi,
Went to my ED group today and got kicked out!!!! Wow, can you imagine how I feel today????
Suppose this goes back to december where I found out that my doctor from the hospital will be joining the group in Feb. Went today as it seemed important to be there one last time before she would come in, but I wasn't allowed in. I am very ambivalent as I have had such a tough time at the hospital and I wrote a complaint about the way I had been treated. I worked hard to get over that and start fresh with a new doctor and a new ED group and now my old doctor (who left the hospital) will join the group, which makes me feel awkward and I ended up getting really upset last month when I found out. They felt that I wasn't safe and sent me to A&E, she called them to tell them I was coming, so I had to go.

Went today with a positive attitude, just be there and trust it can be talked about and sorted out. But the leader and the therapist that organised the group thought it was better if I didn't join. The leader said that the needs of the group come before mine (which I understand, still hurtfull to hear though-makes me feel unwanted and in the way). She then said that she had already spend anough time on me last month and that she was out of pocket making all these calls to A&E and spending the time. I told her I would compensate her for the money as I don't want her to be out of pocket. She said that she didn't want people in the group that bash treatment centres. I was a troublemaker at St Anne's and now I was a troublemaker at the group. I asked if I was allowed to join today, as I purposely came with a positive attitude. I received silence on that question. I said that if they couldn't answer that question with yes, then it menat that I couldn't come in. They said that it was better if I didn't until I had spoken with the doctor and sorted it out.

Why do I not deserve support-I am trying so hard, so hard to be positive, so hard to keep fighting, but I can not fight that attitude. Feel devastated and awfull, feel I want to disappear-I am even too awfull to be in a group with others, I am too much of a trouble maker, too awfull to be around, too awfull to deserve support. I am not allowed to be weak, to cry to say I feel hurt,
S

Oh Suzanne, that sounds horrendous, sorry you've had to go through that.

You must be feeling really hurt and let down but please try not to turn those feelings in on yourself. Whilst its true that the facilitators need to keep the group safe for everyone it seems they have handled this in a really bad way and what happened this morning really is a reflection on their poor management skills, not on you as a person.

I read on the other thread that you are due to move soon- whilst i'm sure that is filling you with anxiety is there anyway you can see the positives in it now?- perhaps a chance to start a fresh away from these services where you really have had quite the ordeal! Perhaps elsewhere, despite the downside of waiting lists, you can start over again and put this all behind you and receive the treatmen you deserve.

It feels to me that they should have contacted you before this morning to discuss where they stood with you returning to the group after the A&E stuff- not just waited for you to turn up- its possible the believe they are acting in your best interests and that time away from the group when you were feeling very strong negative feelings will help keep you safe but the way they have gone about it is horrid.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you and it must feel hard to keep fighting for support when you keep meeting barriers but it isn't about you as a person, I just think you've been terribly unfortunate.

How are you planning to get through today?

xxx

_________________
Birds scream at the top of their lungs in horrified hellish rage every morning at daybreak to warn us all of the truth, but sadly we don't speak birdish. :(

Hi,
I actually told them that I came with a positive attitude and that I was ok handling it, being there. I felt it would be challenging but ok, felt I could handle the challenge, and if I couldn't I could choose myself to leave. No, wasn't feeling negative, maybe a bit apprehensive.

I'm sorry if my reply offended you, I wasn't trying to suggest they were right in anyway or that you weren't in the right frame of mind to attend today- my comment about strong negative feelings was more related to how you must have (rightfully) felt last time when it came to the point of needing to go to A&E- I was just saying that had they felt after that that you needed some time away from the group they could have handled it better. As it was, they handled it appallingly and I really do sympathise.

x

_________________
Birds scream at the top of their lungs in horrified hellish rage every morning at daybreak to warn us all of the truth, but sadly we don't speak birdish. :(

It does sound a terrible experience and I can understand you feeling devestated about what's happened. I think that the first thing to say is that, however it feels, you do deserve help, you really do, so please don't feel that this experience means otherwise.

There isn't a set way to run a group and how a group works often depends a great deal on the people running it but I have to say that labelling someone a trouble maker and sending them away doesn't seem very clever to me; I've met a lot of great therapists and healthcare professionals in my time but I but seem to be occassionaly suprised and dissapointed by people who involve themselves in the mental health field yet seem completely unprepared for all the hurt, emotion and outright anger that can manifest in such conditions, and which they may have a tendancy to interpret as 'bad' behaviour. This may not be the case here and it is important to facilitate the group to keep all the members safe but everyone in the group is a member including anyone who's emotional and struggling, and labelling them as being separate from, and harmful for, the group seems really odd; their need to be kept safe and supported are just as valid. If they're going to exclude anyone who gets upset or angry then I'd imagine they'll rapidly run out of members.

There may occassionally be reasons why a particular group setting isn't approrpriate (and I'm not saying that this is the case here at all) but I'd consider it good practice to spend some gentle one-to-one time with the person explaining the situation and supporting and enabling them to find and access more appropriate support.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation (and it does sound as if you've been badly treated) if feels as if it might do you more harm than good persevering here so it might be worth thinking about what to do. How are you getting on with your new doctor? I think that groups are great but I do think that building a good relationship with you therapist/doctor is really important. It would be great to have both of course, and you have every right to both, but maybe in time you'll find another, more appropriate group. Would you be able to talk through what's happened with your new doctor and get a fresh perspective on things?

If I'd gone through this experience I'd be really angry and I know that I'd find it virtually impossible to let it go, so I do understand that that's a big ask, but the consequences of what's happened seem to be that you've taken on board all the negative stuff and that could really be harmful for you. Part of the recovery process for many people is finding out what works and what doesn't and it sounds like you've, unfortunately, found something that doesn't work, it's a shame and it's been harmful but maybe it's still a learning experience and I'm certain that there are still many opportunities out there (groups, people, whatever) what will work for you; I'm hoping that your new doctor is one of them.

Please don't give up and please don't simply accept the things they've said just because they've said them, above all keep looking for the support you deserve that will make a difference for you.

Hi Paul, Thanks for that. Think it is complicated. The woman that said these things to me is the organiser, she is not a therapist. I told her that when she says: The needs of the group come first, so if you can not work it out with Dr A, you will have to find another space. I told her that I can understand from her place that she would say that, but it still feels quite hurtfull, makes me feel quite unwanted. I also said that of course I would speak with Dr A to see if we could clear things up and move forward, but that does mean she would actually have to call me, which hasn't happened yet. I wasn't supposed to go today, but it seemed important, as it is the last time there is a group before Dr A joins. It seemed important to be there and get used to the idea. I would NEVER have said anything bad about her in the group, as I feel it isn't fair on the other members of the group, and secondly, until I have actually spoken with her and cleared things up, I can not say anything really, it would then just be gossip. I told them that as well. She told me that she had spend enough time and money on me and on keeping me safe (she send me to A&E, I didn't want to go, I just wanted to be with friends. Maybe now I need to go. I feel very unsafe and feel like I don't allow to be here-I am after all, just a trouble maker!!!!When I got send away, I told her that she called a&e for me when I didn't want it, but that now might be a time where I would need it!!!! She told me: don't try that tack with me again!!! I told her that I was ok in December though, I also told her that now I wasn't ok. You know, the quiet, negativeness that overtakes me when I am really NOT ok). Feel soooo sad, as I felt good there, felt I really connected with the girls and I took some to yoga and we met up once for dinner. Feel sad that is taken away again.

Scared, lonely, want to quiet and leave

Hugs suzanne and much much love...i am so sorry to read this, it really pulls at me inside and makes me so angry. it is just ridiculous of them.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Suzanne))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thinking of you as always...please wake up tomorrow and focus on it being a new day xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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“Really great people make you feel that you, too, can become great.” Mark Twain

So sorry this happened to you Suzanne - particularly at this difficult time of transition. It sounds as of you handled the situation today with great maturity too, which makes the organiser's response seem even more frustrating

To echo what Paul has said above...please please try not to turn this very complicated situation back on yourself. There are so many different factors at work here - most of them to do with group politics, ideas of 'appropriateness' and plain insensitive management from what I can tell... it is definitely NOT an indicator that you're not deserving of help.

I don't want to negate how frustrated and upset you are by your experiences with the group in any way - it sounds absolutely awful! But at the same time, I'm really hoping that the move will be a positive fresh start for you -a new place to live, and (after waiting lists etc) a new chance to build relationships with (hopefully more efficient!) treatment team, leaving the pain and mess of today far behind.

Sending lots of love tonight xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hey my love how are you?
Big hugs!xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

_________________
“Really great people make you feel that you, too, can become great.” Mark Twain

Hi Rosie,
I just read your post on the other thread and I feel that it is amazing you are still able to ask me how I am when you are struggling so much yourself. Thank you for asking though, I feel very grateful and I think you are amazing that you show so much compassion towards me at a time that you are struggling so much.
I feel exhausted as I have been feeling so awful, took some sleeping tablets as I had to get some sleep. I cancelled all my support all together-hospital,yoga therapy, dieticians, everything. I still saw my therapist today, but that is very much because she knew what happened on sunday and how bad I felt.
I went to therapy this morning but was hardly able to be in the same room as her, as I feel so horrible and unworthy, such a disgusting human being, I wouldn't do it to anyone to be near me, to be in the same room as me. I do not want to torture her by making her work with me, by making her be in the same room as me, having to listen to me or even touch me. How awful a person must I be to get kicked out of my ED group????? I feel that I must be a really awful human being to make that happen-not sure if it ever happened before? I have cried for 3 days now and am wiped out. I took a leave day from work as I am not able to smile at my passengers right now.
Am seeing my nurse tomorrow. I cancelled it but she insists I come, so I will go, but am scared and worried. Just feel very down, negative. And then there are so many lovely people who care-you asking, others on here offering support, my USA online support (from the yoga group I told you about-we still email loads and they are so great!!!)
And then I am so pleased because I managed to eat very little today, it feels like the punishment I deserve!!! I have been running around london looking for a flat all day, so it was easy to not eat. I know that is completely not helping me, I need to look after myself and stay strong physically so I can manage somehow mentally.
Feel down and confused.
Please look after yourself Rose, just take a bit of time to just sit and breathe. I think it will help. Just be here and breathe.
Love and hugs,
Suzanne

Oh Suzanne,
It makes me sad to read how much your punishing yourself for Sunday. It really really really was NOT an indication of who you are as a person. You are so kind and offer so much sensitive support to people here...you are a real positive influence to have around, and it makes me sad to think you could imagine your therapist and others would think differently.

I hope seeing your nurse will help you feel a bit better tomorrow.

Sending love xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

How did things go with the nusre today? How has it left you feeling? I do hope it was not too stressful. I think you deserve a well earned rest and some YOU time.

take care
Xxx

Hi sunshine,
it was ok, she is very nice. She was very shocked about what had happened and I think she is unsure what to do with it. She works with groups herself and told me that this would never happen where she works, just because it is so unprofessional. i am soooo incredibly confused about the whole thing. I am glad she was nice about it though, think she was just very concerned about the way it has left me feeling. I also feel very worried about going back to the hospital, as I now feel that I am 'the one that got kicked out'!!!
Suzanne

It's been a dreadful experience for you and I do understand that sometimes, when we already feel bad about ourselves, we take bad things that happen to us as justification for how we feel, but it doesn't feel to me that you've done anything wrong at all (it feels more about politics, personal agendas and vested interests to me). I'm really glad that you managed to go along to see you nurse and we able to explain what had happened. She seems to have the same view that I do, that it was very unprofessional and I'm really pleased about this. You seem to have had a very unfortunately, and potentially very damaging, streak of bad luck and some run ins with people that really don't feel very sound at all. Please don't blame yourself and please don't think that because of what's happen, you don't deserve help. I do hope that you're able to reinstate the support you've been having that has been helping and I hope too that you're able to continue exploring what's happen at the group with your nurse if you still feel confused and hurt about it all (which wouldn't suprise me at all).

I'd echo what Sunshine has said, a rest and some 'me' time to try and help ease the upset of it all might help. Do go easy on yourse and again, I do hope that you're able to pick up on the support you've been having that has been good for you.

Hi,
Thanks Paul and sunshine, appreciate your replies. I am kind of getting on with it and feel ok, but as soon as I have to talk about it, like I did today with my nurse, I end up feeling awful.
I feel awful about something else. I was supposed to have a yoga therapy session this morning and I cancelled and said I had the flu. I felt soooo bad, as she is such a lovely lady, that I emailed her and told her that I had lied. OK, this is what I wrote:
Was thinking today about honesty, as I said before xmas I wanted to be more honest with you. Well, the new year starts and I was already not honest. I feel really, really bad that I wasn't, so will tell you the truth now. I don't have the flu, but I have had such a bad weekend, that I feel horrendous and unable to cope with anything. I cancelled all my support all together-hospital, you, dieticians, everything. I still saw my therapist today, but that is very much because she knew what happened on sunday and how bad I felt. (I got kicked out of my ED group as I am a trouble maker I was told-no longer allowed to attend the support group). I went to therapy this morning but was hardly able to be in the same room as her, as I feel so horrible and unworthy, such a disgusting human being, I wouldn't do it to anyone to be near me, to be in the same room as me. That is why I cancelled you. I do not want to torture you by making you work with me, by making you be in the same room as me, having to listen to me or even touch me. I can not do it to you. How awful a person must I be to get kicked out of my ED group?????
That is why I cancelled, but I feel bad about my dishonesty as well. There is no point us working together when I can not be honest with you, but then I also don't want to torture you by making you work with me. Feel very stuck and totally awful for lying, it isn't fair of me to do that, but I can not lie to you either as you def don't deserve that. (I was very unwell though as well, but that was more mental then the flu-and I only managed soup tea and water)Don't know what to do. If you think I am totally horrible for being sooooo dishonest and you don't want to see me again, then that is ok. I totally understand. I am just sorry that I was dishonest, so sorry.
Suzanne
She did get back to me and said that she was glad I didn't have the flu and that I felt I could be honest with her. I should have told her the truth straight away, but I was afraid that she would say that I should come anyway and we could talk about it. I just wasn't able to though, couldn't handle it at all. It might sound as if I am exagerating this whole thing, but being called a trouble maker really gets me right at the core of why I have my ED to begin with (it is sooooo personal that I can not get into it here)

Not just a trouble maker but a lier as well-what is wrong with me!!!!!!!????!!!?!?!?! Just worried she will really hate me now.
S

Hey, well done for sending that email – that must have taken real courage!

Not sure if this will help, but I reckon a lot of us have done similar things to duck out of things when we don’t feel up to them... I’m not proud of it, but I know I certainly have. I guess saying you’re ill – whatever words you use to express it – is still basically a means of letting people know that you feel bad, even though it’s emotional not just physical. It’s more of a ‘white lie’ than a deliberate means of deceiving people, because it’s almost true. I’m not suggesting that it makes it ‘right’ – but it is kinda understandable. I guess what I’m really saying is ‘we all make mistakes’...please don’t beat yourself up any more

Anyway, the main thing is that you told her in the end...and I’m deeply impressed by that! Surely that doesn’t make you a liar, but someone who was courageous enough to take a risk, reach out and (completely voluntarily) take responsibility for the wrong?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dearest Suzanne ,

Oh my gosh in some ways I dont know where to start. When I read the first post I was aghast with emotions like 'how dare they?' and 'how awful and unfair'...and also confusion, because like you have said this is just so incredibely unprofessional I can't quite believe it would happen. And confusion because from what I've read that you have written here, I could never ever see you as being a trouble maker, or any of the words you have used about yourself with what has happened.

Suzanne, you ARE a lovely, genuine, kind, giving, determind, intelligent, hard working, loving individual, and you DO deserve support!!

And there is no doubt or hesitation in me saying that. Because of what you have been through already i know it took guts to even go to the group in the first place, but then to have to deal with what so wrongly happened....its just not right. To be honest, its inhumane to me.

I know how fragile you are sweetheart, and I know how little it would take to tip you over the edge from the rational, happy front suzanne, to the young, 'Icant bear this anymore', irrational Suzanne, so Im not at all suprised you are reacting or feeling like this. But that is not to minimalise what you are feeling or saying, because I know you feel destroyed and probably ripped apart and that is like living hell. Just getting through each day with those feelings is a challenge that is scary, and incredibely exhausting, so your body and mind will be jumping to the easiest coping mechanisms it knows of-your eating disorder.

However, I don't want to dwell too much on what happened, not because its not important, because of course it is, but because it is now done, we can't go back and change time and we can't change how you feel. But we can change what happens tomorrow and the day after, and the day after that. It is more important to focus on helping you to piece you, the loving Suzanne, back together again, and to help you realise you DO deserve support, love, help and guidance, in whatever form it is offered to you.

You deserve it because the Suzanne behind your eating disorder doesn't want or need this hell. Noone wants it for you, and I know you, deep down don't want it. You want to live a happy, content life, carefree and away from the boundaries of the prison of anorexia and harm to yourself. Yes you deserve it because you are lovely, and because we all think you deserve it, but please please recognise that I know the Suzanne who DOES want to get better, who does want support, is still down there, because you need to do this for you...and I know that is the last thing you want right now...but you DO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to talk to that Suzanne who i know is down there behind the self hatred and self destruction because I respect YOU suzanne so much. You have given me, and others on here, such wise advice and love, I would have been lost without you. It wasn't the Suzanne who had her eating disorder head on that wrote all of those wonderful things to me and others, it was You my love...the you you probably dont want to acknowledge right now because you feel the need to banish her, say she isnt important or deserve support and runaway from her, or worse harm her.....but that is a reaction my love, and I really want you to step back and see that. All of these feelings of self hatred and not eating and 'i must neglect myself' is a reaction to what has happened. And they are lies, they arent true, you do not deserve any of it. I want to wrap you in a huge warm cashmere blanket and hug you tight, and then make you a lovely cup of warm tea

It will take time, and small baby steps, towards recognising and acknowledging all of this, and I know its not easy...and maybe it wont feel at all possible right now, but when you write things like "I am trouble maker and do not deserve support" I will NEVER ever aggree with you, and so am going to fight in every possible way to help you come back, feel more in control, confident and like you can ask for support again..like you want support again. Because YOU NEED IT AND YOU DESERVE IT!!!!!!!!!

Suzanne, I know you have been through a hell of a lot in your life, and some bits we know, and some bits, like you said above you don't dare talk about on here, and i know all of these hellish experiences have created this awful eating disorder that feels like it has control of you, but I really want you to recognise that they have also created a Suzanne who is wise, open minded, intelligent, strong and inspiring. Its easy to think of our past negative experiences as just creating negative habits or traits within ourselves, but we can turn them on their heads and see that they do create positive traits and behaviours too. If you broke your life down into each hard experience you have been through, im sure you would have had an awful immediate reaction to it, but overtime, and maybe a long time, that reaction calms and quietens down and you would have learnt from it. They have made you a stronger person because you got through them, you are still here and you do have a life that is worth living. So I really want you to try and step back from yourself and hope and believe that this will be another negative experience, that yes is shit, but that you will learn from, you are reacting from, and then you will pull yourself back and move on and use it to know how to deal with different ups and downs that come your way in the future. And I truely believe that you are capable of getting stronger and stronger suzanne, moving forward, and getting better-because i see an inner spark in you...and i want to help you to ignite that spark and make it fire bright and high .

Life is shit, and is never ever easy, and there does sometimes always feel like there is something ready to knock us down and make us feel unbearable, but we have to be the ones who carry on and fight through, because through doing that we learn how to love and appreciate ourselves all the more. You are NOT a liar, and welldone for writing that email, like Someone said it took courage, and it was the right thing to do, and she wont hate you at all my love. I have countless times said the same thing as you because my eating disorder took over and negative self thinking took over my behaviours. But please, please, please dont beat yourself up anymore. You dont have to love yourself, but try and be Switzerland (!), a middle, neutral ground, and get through each hour without the self hatred thinking,,,do it almost blindly, so that some compassion towards yourself comes back. Please, please think about remaking your appointments, because the rational suzanne wants and needs them and I want you to have them. We all do. You cancelled them in a reaction, not because, i believe, you really wanted to.

But, anyway, gosh i have rambled, for now, break your days down into hours, and focus within each hour on just moving forward and being as kind to yourself as you possibley can. And even if its just one hour that you manage, look back at that hour and praise yourself. Because that is your life rope out of this...kindness and compassion instead of beating yourself up into a downward spiral....just little bits here and there and then acknowledging them,,,they will give you the strength you need to be you and carry on,,,with just a little bit more ease.


BIg love and hugs, as always
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

_________________
“Really great people make you feel that you, too, can become great.” Mark Twain

I'm glad that you were able to write that email, as others have said, it was a brave thing to do. I'm also glad that you were able to again begin to share what happened at the group with someone else. I understand that the way that things have played out have left you feeling really bad about yourself and that you feel unable to see it in any other way at the moment, but your nurse clearly sees things very differently to you (and in a similar way to how we feel on the boards) and I'm sure that your yoga teacher will see things the same way. Hopefully in time you'll begin to recognise how others see the events and be able to stop blaming yourself.

I hope that the email is the start of a process in which you begin to reconnect with the people who are there to support you and I'm sure that they will reenforce how much you do deserve to be supported! Far from hating you I suspect that your yoga teacher will recognise your courage and honesty and I do hope that the two of you get back together soon and carry on with your recovery (and I hope that you're able to do that with all your team).

Do take care of Yourself Suzanne and well done!

Hi Paul and Rose,
Thank you for your kind replies. Rose, I am so touched by the way you write, with such understanding and compassion, you realy touch my heart.

I started to find a little spot to shelve the whole sorry saga when I received an email from her yesterday. It totally wiped me out again. I am not sure if I am ok to go to treatment. Apparently I am too emotional (I am an emotional person, cry easily, but it is a release for me)-to be honest-I didn't read her email fully as it upset me too much. She said I need to learn to be more in control of my emotions before joining a group like that as they are there only for ed support and not for emotional support. MMM suppose in my case they kind of go hand in hand (is it just me or is that quite a common thing??)

Need some time with this, just feel sad and confused, but gratefull for all your support.
S x

Suzanne
i don't know the whole ins and outs of the whole thing, but to me that sounds completely ridiculous. the 'problem' (for lack of a better word right now) for a lot of people with eds is that we don't know how to release and express emotions - surely it is a good thing to be able to release through crying! whats the point if everyone sits there with everything all bottled up, you might actually encourage others to share their emotions too! i think you are right that emotions and eds go hand in hand and they are being ridiculous. sorry if im coming across blunt but its just my opinion from an outsiders view...